Support

Fri, 08/16/2013 - 19:28 -- BlueWinds

I accept bitcoins. No credit cards, no Paypal (evil company), no checks, no mailed money orders. Don't ask. Seriously. I will ignore you.

Sorry it's a little more complicated than just entering a credit card number. I'm not dealing with a high-risk merchant account with 11% processing and a monthly fee.

There are two options: Use the big button below (simpler, if you don't have any experience with BTC) or send coins directly to 1BRotHeL7NBBmANbomEZisKMgvh4ummwGD. Yes, that's a vanity address I generated - took about 24 hours on my laptop ;).

Pay With Bitcoin

Comments

J (not verified) on

i am not trying to be a dick and tell you how to do things but are you sure about bitcoin from what i heard bit coin is really risky

J (not verified) on

i am sorry for being a dumbass i should of read the whole  post befor posting a comment i just saw the bit coin logo and  decied to post my question without reading further sorry about that bluewind

Krystle (not verified) on

Hm... using a company I've never even heard of, let alone used...

 

I'll have to think about that one, but first, I need money if I'm to even think about it. xD

pi (not verified) on

bitcoin isn't a company, it's a self-regulating monetary system... (snipped by BlueWinds because of unreadability)

BlueWinds on

I recommend capitalization and paragraph breaks. Also, I'm done responding to negative and paranoid comments.

BlueWinds on

Considering the concerns people are having about bitcoins, I think I should post a public explanation here.

I am accepting payment via an alternate payment processor - the bitcoin network. It has lower transaction fees than the alternatives, without risk of charge backs.

I am not using them as an investment, which would be dumb - they're highly volatile at the moment. I'll be withdrawing my bitcoins into USD on a regular basis. I am well aware of the problems with the currency - I've been following and using them since shortly after their inception. This is not a spur-of-the-moment decision.

After considering the alternatives... I am making a financial choice (0% fee vs 11% fees). There's also a political message in there by refusing credit cards (and related parasitic financial institutions), debt-based currency (USD) and the largest purveyer of violence in the world (the US government), but that's secondary.

0% isn't entirely accurate - there's the cost of currency exchange - but it's still better. And I'd rather pay that fee to MTGox than Visa.

Anonymous (not verified) on

Certainly your call and I hope it works well as I have previously supported your project. However, unsure how sound the message is in stating you will not accept USD but you plan to convert the currency into USD.

BlueWinds on

The answer is "not very strong," but you can't eat bitcoins (I can pay for web hosting in them).

A lot of the fear / mistrust / dislike comes from demonizing propaganda rather than real issues. Seriously, the articles from respectable news sources cite conspiracy trolls as though they were reliable facts.

There are some lessons that the next generation of crypto currency can learn from bitcoins, but they've been around for years and show no signs of going away any time soon. Fluctuating in value, yes. Having growing pains, yes. Failing, no.

Krystle (not verified) on

I wasn't tryng to sound 'negative' or 'paranoid,' but your game would be the only thing I'd use that for. And if it has its own exchange rate, then that's even more to worry about.

Like I said, my worries and concerns weren't necessarily from what I've read about it (like I said, I've never even heard of it until you talked about it), but all my worries are for naught until I get actual money anyway.

BlueWinds on

The negaitve bit was directed at Pi, who's comment I snipped, not at you. You're good. :)

pi (not verified) on

just don't do something stupid like sitting on piles of bitcoins and hoping they appreciate in value. they are only ever be good as an international exchange medium and currently they are only overpriced because of hipsters, snowden, and hype. 

Krystle (not verified) on

Well, I checked the currency thing today, and it's 113 dollars to one bitcoin or something like that.

My next question is: Can you buy partial bitcoins, like $5 worth, or do you have to buy whole bitcoins? Because I don't want to spend $113 dollars if I'm only going to use $5 of it.

BlueWinds on

Yes, they are meant to be divided, and are (nearly) infinitely divisible - milli (.001) is in common use, and micro (.000001) or smaller divisions are supported by the network.

Ace (not verified) on

It's a shame because I wanted to donate but I'm not interested in the amount of hoops that I'd need to jump through to use this as a non-US based personage.

BlueWinds on

I have heard the exact opposite from many people - they have to jump through hoops to make an international credit card payment.

1BLpjpAJE5kv4m66phZPhjQth6Rigb6ibi is universal, geopolitical border agnostic.

http://howdoyoubuybitcoins.com/in/

slayingbeast (not verified) on

how long can we still donate?

it will take me a week to get bitcoins if i watch the longest times of transferring.

greets

BlueWinds on

This will remain open indefinitely into the future.

Daedilus on

Have a question about bitcoins...How do you spend them when the power goes out?

BlueWinds on

You can't, same way a credit card or bank account is useless without power.

Marduk (not verified) on

Too many hoops to jump through and the companies involved in this business is unknown to me. I suspect it is easier if you are US-based but in my country it is not supported well. I don't trust this enough to want to link my bank account to some random company. I use my visa card for online payments for a reason, because it is easy to sever the link and get a new visa card if my payment info gets into the wrong hands. I doubt you care, but just writing so you know you lose some money by chosing this payment method.

ptwist on

At first, using bitcoins is daunting. But I assure you it's not that bad at all, and you CAN use your visa. This guide goes into it pretty well: http://arimaa.com/bitcoin_get/

Essentially: 1.) Set up your bitcoin wallet (free, takes a little bit of time). 

2.) Buy some bitcoins (or fraction of bitcoins) using ebay, with your credit card, from folks with good feedback. 

3.) Send bitcoins for donation. They're fun to use, mine, and all around geek over. But hey, I totally agree with you that a quick and easy credit card method would be best...but I also agree with BlueWinds that essentially such a method don't exist. 

Dexter Mayhew (not verified) on

Why not start another campaign?

BlueWinds on

A couple of reasons.

  1. Offbeatr requires a deposit in order to start a campaign. If your project fails, they keep the money.
  2. Offbeatr takes 25% of the donations (Only 20% if you exceed $10k, but still).
  3. Campaigns are all-or-nothing deals, and limited to 15, 30 or 45 days.

Basically, it's too expensive and not flexible enough. Offbeatr is interesting, but I hope they get some competition soon.

lindatess on

Can we send money to a PO Box No to donate?I wouldn't recommend posting where you live, so a PO Box would be an alternative...

Otherwise I won't be able to donate and will have to wait until the beta is finished.

slayingbeast (not verified) on

well ive done a deposit off of 0.20430419 BTC

its a bit more so well..

if you want any pictures or anything i can give you.

pls add me to donate list ^^

BlueWinds on

It has been done. :)

ptwist on

When I saw this post: 1.) Awesome! BTC ftw. I've suggested to other makers of these sort of games to use them for donations, so it's great to see someone doing it. 

2.) Oh man he's going to get trolled so hard by folks annoyed by this...

I might suggest adding a very quick explanation regarding bitcoins, a link to a guide how to get started, and emphasis that it's really not that much more work than a credit card. From my limited experience, the easiest way for someone to buy BTC without hassle/giving away banking information is through ebay. Sure, it won't be completely cost effective as exchanges... but better something than nothing. 

 

 

BlueWinds on

It's quite encouraging to hear someone who actually likes the idea after all the negativity.

Clearly at least some people are willing to try it - while Offbeatr is still messing around with making me sign a contract before they'll release the money (one of the clauses is dubious, to put it mildly, I've asked for clarification), several people have already used this new system successfully.

ptwist on

Man, this offbeatr eh? Awesome idea, yet I'm hearing constantly how horrid it is dealing with them. I'd be super curious as to what these clauses are like....I'd have hoped it was as easy as giving them your information and recieving a nice wad of cash....

BlueWinds on

So, I'm not great at reading legalese.

"In consideration of Offbeatr's acceptance of this Agreement, the undersigned Guarantor unconditionally guarantees the performance of all obligations of Project Creator under this Agreement and outlined in the Offbeatr Terms of Use, and payment of all sums due thereunder, and in the event of default, hereby waives notice of default and agrees to indemnify Extra Lunch Money LLC for all funds due from Project Creator pursuant to the terms of the Agreement."

I would have initially thought that Guarantor was an Offbeatr employee, except that the space below asks for my signature again, rather than anyone else's. So I'm both the project creator and the guarantor.

"Guarantor waives any and all rights of subrogation, reimbursement or indemnity derived from Project Creator, and further waives any and all rights or defenses arising by reason of any modification or change in the terms of the Agreement whatsoever, including, without limitation, the renewal, extension, acceleration, or other change in the time any payment or other performance thereunder is due."

Now I may have read this incorrectly. but doesn't that mean that mean that Offbeatr can unilaterally modify the contract in any way, and I'm waiving my right to protest?

BlueWinds on

I felt I should update this bit of bad press to note that they have been quite willing to edit the contract - I think I may simply have been the first person to actually read the fine print and point out the problem from a project creator's prospective.

Spine (not verified) on

I note beforehand that this issue a little old and may no longer be important.  I am a lawyer, though nonpracticing becase I hated it so much I prefer terrible work while I get into an actual career.  Standard "I am not acting as your lawyer or giving specific legal advice, because this is an lazy ten minute thing; do not rely on this as legal advice or counsel because I haven't read the whole contract, I didn't practice on precisely those types of contracts, and don't want to be liable if I didn't see something" disclaimers apply.  At any rate...

Waiver of subrogation, indemnity, and reimbursement rights isn't a big deal.  Subrogation is stepping into the shoes of another party to a lawsuit; the most common place you'll see it is in insurance.  You get in a car wreck; your insurance company pays you.  Yay.  Because the insurance company has the right of subrogation, they can sue the other driver (or the other driver's insurance company) if they refuse to pay your insurance company; they have been granted the right of subrogation.  This contract says that you don't get to step into Offbeatr's shoes and sue someone if someone else screws Offbeatr over and you get caught in the backwash.  Not a big deal imo.  A longer explanation re: service contracts can be read here (second half):  http://www.irmi.com/expert/articles/2000/slavens12.aspx

The waiver of modification bit is worded funny, but what I believe is happening is this.  Let's say you have a payment schedule (I have no idea how the payment works with Offbeatr, but this is the most common version).  You're supposed to pay them $100 a month for a year.  One month you call them and say you had a medical emergency.  You can only pay $50 that month.  They agree, and say they'll tack on a 13th month payment of $50.  You'll still pay the same total, so what's the big deal?  But it turns out your medical condition is worse than expected (and is expensive), and you tell them that you can't do $100 every month; they let you put off paying half the cost one month, so it's only natural that they let you do $50 a month for the rest of the term, so long as you pay the same total.

In that case, they can sue you and say that they're holding you to the modified contract ($100 a month except the one month and the last month at $50).  They agreed to a one time thing, but you can't just apply that one time deal to the rest of the contract unilaterally.  <strong>The crucuial bit here is that you can't even defend in that lawsuit.  You can use the one time modification, but you can't even claim that there was a verbal agreement or whatever that if the situation got worse the modification would be extended.</strong>

From the company's perspective it's a legit clause.  Their goal is 1) if they do have to sue you, make sure that all they have to pay their lawyers to do is show up, not get involved in a long lawsuit, and 2) make sure that they don't get screwed accidentally.  

<strong>What it means for you is that if you request a modification of payment terms you should get it in writing (making it a legit modification) and know that it only applies to what is written, not any verbal modifications or issues that are not specifically addressed in the modification.  It does not mean they can modify the contract without your consent; that would be evil.</strong>

BlueWinds on

Yep, I see that you're right - it parses differently now when I read the paragraph than it did when I first read it. ^^;;

It's long since resolved - I requested a modification of that sentence (based on my faulty reading), and they accepted.

Coga on

Would it be possible for those of us still suspicious of or otherwise unable to use Bitcoins to donate regular $$$ perhaps? If there was, i think I missed it in all of the discussions.

BlueWinds on

From the OP: "I accept bitcoins. No credit cards, no Paypal (evil company), no checks. Don't ask."

ptwist on

I don't want to come across as jumping on all the BTC skeptics, but.....There's no one unable to use bitcoins, as the only requisite is a computer and internet access. While it's totally fair to be skeptical of using bitcoins, in this case it's BlueWinds who is receiving them, not you...so it's for him to worry (or not worry) about. I posted above how to indirectly use a credit card. Tl;dr is buy them off ebay, and then send to him (or, perhaps you might even just be able to give sellers BlueWinds's wallet address, you don't even have to set up a bitcoin wallet). 

This does mean a little bit extra work on our part to get the donations in... but it's probably the only way to do it, and hey, it takes much less time to make a bitcoin wallet than it does to make this game! :)I'd be happy to help folks in this process... maybe post something in the forum, and I'll try to check somewhat regularly. Not that I'm any expert on the matter, but I've used them a bit. 

 

Anonymous (not verified) on

Can I donate with a credit card without the tiered benefits?

BlueWinds on

Nope. I have no way to accept credit card payments in any form. Perhaps after version 1 is released I'll consider looking again, but I think people seriously underestimate how annoying and expensive it is to accept money for adult projects.

Anon (not verified) on

You might think you're saving yourself a lot of headaches by going bitcoin only, but what you're doing is forcing people that want to give you money to use a payment method that is, for a lot of them, quite outside their comfort zone. Which will lead to a lot of those people not bothering.

I probably would have impulse-bought beta access and possibly easy mode if all I had to do was punch my CC number into Paypal, but to be frank I'm not going to bother jumping through the hoops you've put in place.

tl;dr: If you make it hard for people to give you money, less people will give you money.

BlueWinds on

I cannot accept money though paypal for an adult project. It is against their terms of service.

I have said this multiple times. There are no alternatives that I can find other than setting up a merchant bank account and processing the credit cards on this site - this costs more money (in development time and fees) than I could reasonably expect to get. I would be *spending* money to set anything else up, not getting it.

 

Make a suggestion that's actually possible, or stop complaining.

Konjou on

Hi BlueWinds,

almost a two weeks ago, I had sent a donation of $15 in bitcoins to you, and sent you a message about it shortly afterwards, I guess the message was lost

BlueWinds on

Ah, so very sorry! I see it now burried in my inbox. You're added as a supporter.

Konjou on

thanks for the prompt reply and correction

Magician on

No complaint here, as I've just sent off a bitcoin donation I feel is well deserved.

However, based on your assertion that it's costing you roughly 0% versus 11% for credit cards I thought I'd point out that in this case it cost you 25%, because the value of the bitcoins I purchased (enough to send you $20 USD upon clearing) had reduced to less than that amount during the 1 week processing period, and I wasn't about to purchase more just to have the same thing recur, so I sent $15 instead.

Maybe at some point you could consider alternative donation methods if anything better comes along; but I understand your fee-based concerns perfectly and don't know of a good alternative outside the old fashioned 'send me a money order to a P.O. Box' kind of thing.

Good luck and keep up the good work regardless of the donation method you end up with. :)

BlueWinds on

Interesting. I suppose I'll have to consider it as counteracting the $10 I made earlier when the bitcoins appreciated in value before I could sell them (which I do regularly). ;)

You're marked now, so you can see and download releases.

Renny on

That seems to be my biggest concern. I bought $10 yesterday. With how it fluctuates I may not have the $10 to donate come the 2nd when it clears. It seems kind of counter productive on Coinbases end to have such a long processing period.

BlueWinds on

The US Government is partially to blame for that - anti money laundering laws. Coinbase also gets some of the blame, but not all of it.

Shawnsan on

So after about an hour of reading negative comments or comments that are repeating through different people. I would like to state something. The Demo that I played a few hours ago was even in its current form incredibly amazing. Even in its demo state it has made its way to one of my top favorite games. People who have all these concerns using something they don't understand are all justified but just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. This game is turning out to be incredibly good and well worth the risk of doing something like going into unfamiliar territory. The moment I get some money put together I'll be donating as much as i can afford to. I'm on a 2 week payment rate so it will be 2 weeks but you can count on me to step out my comfort zone to help support this game. See you then. :)

Valkieria on

I think that all of the features and rewards should be completed before releasing the game. You are in a rare position to make both the beta supporters and random Joes that come across the game happy, the only people you might make made are the impatient ones. :P

TK on

Coinbase is a bit of a bother in my opinion.  From what I understand, people used to be able to buy bitcoins instantly without the extra added hassle of needing a credit card (I don't believe in those). Anyway, I'm glad I actually have a reason to use bitcoins since I've been wanting to check them out for a while now. I'm glad I can support this project since I've been a big fan since the original and I really liked the demo.

Now for a nice and long 4 day wait...ugh.

Popuri (not verified) on

I checked out Coinbase recently, and it would only let me purchase Bitcoins in a minimum amount of 0.1 Bitcoins. As of this post, the current market value that I see for Bitcoins is over $1000 USD per coin, which means if someone wanted to donate here and did not intend to use coins for anything else, they would need to spend a minimum of over $100 USD.

Using an alternative payment method to avoid fees is all well and good, and I think your work here is fantastic (and would like to support). If anybody knows a better method of buying them I'd appreciate it, but barring that, is there any way you accept something like a Money Order?

BlueWinds on

Hm, I'm not seeing that limit. In fact, I just successfully bought 0.02 BCT (~$20) worth right now.

Popuri (not verified) on

Weird. Just went back to the site and the limit is no longer there. It definitely was back when they were about $200 per Bitcoin. Maybe the site changed their policies when the coins exploded.

Oh well! Just purchased some coins, and if the price doesn't drop out on them, should be able to make my donation on the 10th.

BlueWinds on

I'm flexible, given the volatile nature of the currency. If it does drop a bunch, tell me the amount you intended to donate and I'll probably believe you. ;)

Aestolia (not verified) on

I wish I could support your project, and I'm more than willing to donate. However your choice of payment currently won't allow me to. I'm up in Canada, and Coinbase can only link US bank accounts, and for some reason will only allow US mailing addresses (despite the drop down to select Canada).

BlueWinds on

I keep being surprised by the number of international people interested in supporting. Yay, internet!

Easy international payments are actually one of the largest benefits of bitcoin. You just have to find a local exchange to convert your fiat currency into bitcoins, then they can be used to pay anyone in the world.

The only Canadian bitcoin exchange I know of is https://www.canadianbitcoins.com/. Unless you happen to be in Vancouver, that is, in which case you have access to the world's first (and so far only) Bitcoin ATM, which opened just last month.

Aestolia (not verified) on

Actually I just looked into that (because I was google stupid before and just following the directions you had offered). There are a number of different Canadian options I've found, just trying to settle in on the one I like the most.

Wizard on

Well I'm in Aus so... I'll find someway to donate.